ANIMAL RIGHTS BILL 1 - Tom Regan speaks.

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Does the Animal Kingdon Require a bill of Rights. Dr Tom Regan author 'The Case for Animal Rights' opens the debate. Please leave comments and keep them child friendly.

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Yes- comparing ... ( 5 days ago by Eriyah)

Yes- comparing healthy people without disease behaviors/environment/exposures/events/genetics etc to people with diseases behaviors/environment/genetics etc. will give more answers. We know smoking and meth is bad based on the numbers of humans who do this die, are hospitalized, suffer disease etc. Taking rats, chimps and cats etc and forcing these products on them 2 create lung cancer etc. is absurd, cruel, unethical and waste of my taxpayer money. Survey the hospital records-its done everyday

Now obviously diet ... ( 5 days ago by Eriyah)

Now obviously diet is not the end cause and effect to all situations, just a major contributor to western primary chronic illnesses-heart disease, cancers, stroke, diabetes and a myriad of others. Getting a disease such as maleria, cholera flu etc are from exposures. If we have the disease and are going to die anyway, whats the problem with testing on us to see if we can cure it? I'm all for it, sign me up- I think experiments on humans would force scientists to be more ethical in their tests.

"Human Nutrition, ... ( 5 days ago by HiddenFacedMatt)

"Human Nutrition, OSU." - Eriyah
What's OSU stand for?
And just because going vegan improved your health doesn't mean not being vegan is what harmed it in the first place; it's not just whether or not you eat meat, but which meats you eat and how much of them. Reminds me of the Simpsons scene where Lisa sees a sign saying "don't eat beef; eat deer!"
But seriously, it's up to you what you do, and it's great that you've improved your health, but I'm still inclined to continue eating meat.

"Meat isn't the ... ( 5 days ago by HiddenFacedMatt)

"Meat isn't the only factor- dairy- especially dairy protein, is extremely problematic health wise." - Eriyah
Again, I'm just not inclined to believe that notion, especially since I'm used to my doctors recommending drinking more milk.
"Consider picking up a book called "The China Study" by T. Collin Campbell." - Eriyah
I might look for it in the QEII next time I'm in St. John's, but the next semester of MUN is starting in less than a week, and I'm not sure if I'll have time to read it.

"It could hurt them ... ( 5 days ago by HiddenFacedMatt)

"It could hurt them, yes, but it actually may cure them too- and not not hurt them at all." - Eriyah
Which are you suggesting is more likely?
"If they are suffering from disease, a palliative drug or surgery" - Eriyah
Insulin therapy is neither a drug nor a surgery.
"Identifying the underlying problem and changing the behavior that is causing it is the resolution." - Eriyah
Are you telling me that you think type 1 diabetes is caused by behaviour? Or were you saying something else?

"They must refer ... ( 5 days ago by HiddenFacedMatt)

"They must refer you to a nutritionist- who are often trained by ciriculums largely contibuted to by the Diaryman's Association and big pharma. Who's interest are they?" - Eriyah
I doubt nutritionists trained in public universities who work at public hospitals are going to that easily fall prey to the influence of private companies.

"We know smoking ... ( 5 days ago by HiddenFacedMatt)

"We know smoking and meth is bad based on the numbers of humans who do this die, are hospitalized, suffer disease etc. Taking rats, chimps and cats etc and forcing these products on them 2 create lung cancer etc. is absurd, cruel, unethical and waste of my taxpayer money." - Eriyah
Obviously they should be focusing their efforts on studies more necessary than those of testing drugs on animals, but what about more meaningful experiments that have more potential to give unexpected explanations?

And one complaint ... ( 5 days ago by HiddenFacedMatt)

And one complaint about your last comment; in your list of illnesses contributed to by diet, you simplistically refer to "diabetes" instead of taking into account the difference between type 1 and type 2; as someone with type 1 diabetes, which isn't caused by diet, I find that somewhat offensive.
That said, I'd like to mention that I appreciate your otherwise respectful, reasoned approach to this. I'm guessing it's something that many probably wouldn't expect from youtube comments sections...

Eriyah: I grasp the ... ( 5 days ago by TTSinPA)

Eriyah: I grasp the "do unto others" concept, but prey animals are not the others meant. Morals/ethics are for humans.
The flaw in your mis-guided philosophy is demanding other people accept animals as our moral equals. Being a 'moral agent' doesn't mean I must raise lower animals to human moral status.
The necessity argument is VERY weak. You don't need a car or computer, yet I'd guess you have them.
I agree certain methods are wrong, but animal use in general is fine.

Eriyah: "Evolution ... ( 5 days ago by TTSinPA)

Eriyah: "Evolution is recognizing we are moral/ethical agents, with a capacity for compassion & empathy towards...other species..."
Actually, evolution = the theory that natural genetic variations in subsequent generations produce changes that favor reproduction & survival by some individuals over others, so over generations all members of that species possess the favorable traits. Morals have NOTHING to do with the Theory of Evolution. (Except in your version)

Cars and computers ... ( 4 days ago by Eriyah)

Cars and computers are inanimate objects. You and I are animals, and our species prides itself on how intelligent we are, and yet by your standards, you can't even grasp that another animal, albeit different, cannot experience enslavement or by a warped interpretation of what living animals qualifies for "do unto" equal treatment. Just because we are human and apply our civilized expectations on our own species- doesn't mean we ought to use all others as our slaves. Might does not make right.

Thanks for the ... ( 4 days ago by Eriyah)

Thanks for the textbook ableit non intellectual application. Evolove meanst to develope and grow. Becoming cultured and intellectual is an evolutionary process of becoming civilized. Extending ones consciousness thereby expanding knowlege is an act of evolving.

We may have ... ( 4 days ago by Eriyah)

We may have elevated our speciecs to the top of the food chain with intelligence, technology and weaponry, and WE are still PREY animals. None of our physiological characteristics are indicative of predators. Lack of speed, agility, we can't out run/swimm most predatory animals,(or most prey animals for that matter) our horse like teeth, our jaw structure, thick fleshy tongue and lips, lack of claws. Being stranded along a hwy in florida easily makes one a dining candidate for alligators.

The difference in " ... ( 4 days ago by Eriyah)

The difference in "need" is that predatory animals in the wild NEED 2 eat other animals. We however do not, in fact, humans eating animals has been proven to be a major source of a myriad of chronic disease. At our population level, livestock is the root cause of the worst evironmental practices impacting our sustainability. Intensive farming to feed animals 2 feed us is an ethical travesty on a monumental scale. Water scarcity is a real problem. What each of us does really matters.

Indeed moral ... ( 4 days ago by Eriyah)

Indeed moral application in this regard is a one way street- although animals are wild and live in nature and cannot be held to a human standard of ethics, our behaviors are grossly out of balance. The only thing you are proving here is that you are semantically petty and have a an undeveloped sense of compassion or empathy. If this is the best you and the current majority can do, we will be extinct soon and unfortunately will take down 98% of other spiecies, leaving algae to inherit the earth

And before you ... ( 4 days ago by Eriyah)

And before you launch an ad homonym diatribe- 500 characters to convey a complex concept is stifling so some of the ideas Im floating here take abrupt turns. And yes, I see I have some misspellings, typos and left out a crucial word that would make the statement make more sense: cannot experience enslavement" Should be can not cannot. Behaviorally our ancesters developed the ability to hunt. We also used to be canibals. The point is if we are civilized- why cling to barbaric behavior?

What I meant by a ... ( 4 days ago by Eriyah)

What I meant by a warped interpretation of which living animals qualifies for "do unto" equal treatment. How can you be so arbitrary on recognizing the suffering of other animals? Comparing animals 2 inanimate objects isn't logical, its absurd and WEAKER than your argument RE need. It certainly maintains the uncivilized status quo in addition 2 an inaccurate delivery of rational thinking. You understand computers and cars are things, not animals, correct?

Ethical/moral ... ( 4 days ago by Eriyah)

Ethical/moral behavior does not apply towards treatment of an inanimate object directly as it does towards animals. Typing on a computer or driving a car is not the same as using another animal against its will. Early man, before they figured out how to make tools or fire, ate roots, shoots, nuts and fruits. We are naturally herbivores and behaviorally omnivores. We are the only prey animal in nature to eat and enslave other animals. That is neither natural order nor a symbiotic existence.

Where this gets ... ( 4 days ago by Eriyah)

Where this gets problematic on a larger scale as our population is unchecked at 6.7 Bil and counting. Since we are the only species engaged in totally unnatural and detrimental behaviors of erroneous diets, cars, computers, popping pills-etc recognizing the impacts of this before it destroys us is an ethical dilemma that requires us to be more engaged and connected with our true basic needs than we are currently displaying. It starts with getting our elitist inflated egos under control.

The Chairman of the ... ( 4 days ago by Eriyah)

The Chairman of the Food and Nutrition Board has been a consultant to the National Dairy Council, Mead Johnson Nutritionals,Nestle and affiliate of Dannon at the same time he was advisor to the food pyramid, school lunches and food stamps. He did not report this affiliation which is an ethics violation. 6 of 11 committee members had financial ties to the dairy industry. US Government Food Panel Guide Pyramid sponsors included Dannon, Mars Candy, Coca Cola, Burger King, Phizer and Roche.

I need more ... ( 4 days ago by Eriyah)

I need more information on what you are suggesting. OSU = Ohio State University. They literally had a study of Cats on Meth 3 years ago- I don't know the current status of it but I abhor the prospect that useless horrible things are foisted on other beings. We have the technology to catalog so much information about ourselves- both healthy and unhealthy people. I spent a few years in healthcare and current physician intake data isn't comprehensive enough.

Yes-Type 1 is ... ( 4 days ago by Eriyah)

Yes-Type 1 is different-currently uncureable- unfortunately not by your behavior, more likely your mothers (not her fault either) We live in a misinformed society. Mothers who consume dairy, while lactating and also feed their infants dairy products (formula) as opossed to breast milk. BSA doesn't fully digest in the intestine and released fragments into the blood. Immune system tries to destroy them- and they are very similar to our pancreatic cells. Body cannot distinguish, so destroys both

Glad we can agree ... ( 4 days ago by Eriyah)

Glad we can agree that needless suffering applies to animals. This is the need I was referring to when I talked about needless. You think needless suffering should be addressed. It is best addressed by not eating creatures since we don't NEED to. Taste preference, habit, tradition, apathy do not trump ethics in this instance. It is unnatural for herbivores to eat other animals. We are herbivores in spite of our behavioral omnivorous transgressions.

sigh...i wonder if ... ( 4 days ago by bryceh12321)

sigh...i wonder if you will ever stop repeating the same old bullshit your side always uses. you always ignore the fact that the human brain is far more developed and intricate than any other species. thus we have....fire! cooking it! we dont go out and start gnawing on the first carcass we come across. we have the INTELLECTUAL REQUIREMENTS to eat meat. a fact that your side always ignores. same story as when you say 'we don't have claws and the speed to kill'. intellect is our weapon. nice try.

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